28 Jan 2011
The Document Foundation, LibreOffice and OOXML
If you thought we were all back to sleep after the release of LibreOffice 3.3, think again! The Steering Committee is at work and today we wanted to publish our opinion on a touchy subject, the support of OOXML in LibreOffice. LibreOffice offers the ability to export documents in the Microsoft Office formats, and these include the ones of MS Office 2007 and 2010. You can actually deactivate that feature if you don’t like it.
Read all about it here.
It is very important to continue to have ability to exchange documents, etc. with others. The Microscope Office Formats are almost “universal” in the computer world, regardless of how one feels about “Big M” and its products. I feel it is critical to be able to import and export documents in those formats, at least until there is a viable “universal” format available.
Cheers and Many Thanks for your work.
Hi, very many thanks to all of you!!!!
I wish you improve pdf export including the chance to make document with embedded video and flash animation. I think it’s a pity to produce a complete document with your drawing program then just export it as a simple 1A/ pdf format without embedded file.
I trust in your experience as developpers lovers….have a great week end!!!
I agree completely with John — we need to have this work for everybody — not just some people…
I would agree with the first comment. Compatibility across the board with formats. Just kill them with features!
I think it is best not to implement support for new MS formats. It is a matter of where to spend the resources and I think you are better off spending the time and money to work with Google, Apache, and IBM to rebuild your formats to better work better with cloud apps. I also agree that you have to many features, thin it down, make it smaller, and make it easy to use.
I like the name you chose for the extension: MOX.
It could be improved by adding “LUM” to the beginning, i.e.
Largely
Unimplementable
Manure,
Microsoft
Offixe
XML
I think it’s more important to be able to remove the features than disable them. The greatest concern with OOXML is that it opens you up to Microsoft patent lawsuits!
Support for MS Office 2007/2010 formats should remain in both reading/writing modes. This is a needed feature in any MS/LibO mixed environment.
But I don’t think there is need to improve (i.e. spend time and effort) this support.
I, like many, am not actually anti-Microsoft (even though we like to joke or say we that we are!)
1 – proprietary formats are sometimes OK. For example, if a company has high-end CAD software that is leading edge, then that’s probably OK to protect. It’s a limited field, and if the creators of the very unique software have the creativity and gumption to engineer then it deserves protection.
2 – there are, however, many very commonly-used formats that the majority of computer users use in every day life. It’s like the type of petroleum that you put in your car – everyone uses the type of fuel, but it shouldn’t rely on the type of car you drive.
Going on the above analogy, a commonly used fuel should not dictate what type of car you drive. But if you drive a super, high-performance car that only few are privileged or able to use (eg F1), then the fuel should certainly be propriety; they earn it and deserve it. It’s a specialised class.
The makers of the engines should be relying on the features and performance of the engine – not on what type of fuel is put into it.
So – go LibreOffice! Support the formats that the common masses use, and go for the performance and features!
I agree with Jhon.
Compatibility with MS Office is very important. Many governmental agencies and companies decided not to use OOo because of low compatibility with existent templates and materials, which is written by MS Office.
Unfortunately it is the undeniable fact that MS Office is global-standard office suite. I think we have to consider this when spreading LibreOffice, or it will end with complacence.
Another in agreement with John – you should support of OOXML.
I’m a user and a firm believer in FREE Open Source, cross-platform, and portable software. I’m convinced that Open Source software can be just as good and has potential to be even better than most proprietary software. I’m also thrilled that the project has been given back to the Open Source community.
My daughter used OpenOffice.org throughout her high school years and now uses the software in college. We have already made the decision twice now, even in recent weeks, to stay with FREE Open Source software and not pay Microsoft for their high-priced products.
Most college students don’t have the extra money to spend on expensive software, but they do need to be able to maintain compatibility with Microsoft products. The LibreOffice team should continue to develop a quality product that has no boundaries and maintains compatibility with Microsoft products.
Doing so will most definitely open more doors for the Open Source community in our colleges and universities.
Support for MS Standards is pretty much a must (along with OpenOffice Formats). Having said that. it seems as though Microsoft modifies and extends things more quickly than they need to. OpenOffice and LibreOffice should be about continuity and functionality, NOT the need to churn new products out just to generate revenue. If the new changes increase functionality for a valid reason, then they should be considered. Thanks for your time and keep up the good work!
I agree that import/export of OOXML is desirable, perhaps even necessary. For myself, I am frustrated that many public schools (in USA) have chosen to require it for their students’ work. However, at home, we cannot afford to buy MSOffice. So, how can my children produce the documents for their school? And how can they open the documents produced at their school for their use at home? I have had several instances where OOo could not open (in fact, it crashed miserably) an OOXML document posted by a school for an assignment. So, PLEASE, support OOXML as much as possible. It matters!
Having the ability to import/export OOXML is important for the health of the proyect. Some business users and governments needs this features and will change Libreoffice for MSOffice as long as we do not support it.
BUT take into account that this has a trade-off. Suppoting OOXML will only help make OOXML a defacto standard if the Libreoffice do not support it taking into account this posibility. LibreOffice, should promote and extend the ODF format far from where it is. LibreOffice has not yet adopted nor had a voice about the proposed Unified ODF icons which were designed to make a strong ODF recognizable brand. So is LibreOffice promoting ODF more than it is promoting OOXML? I leave this question open…
Although I dislike M$ I think it’s very important to have the best possible compatibility and interoperability with MS OOXML formats. It’s one of the main reasons I switched from OOo to LibO. Besides that LibO should be compatible with all document formats and should also be able to import/export with Google Docs and Zoho. For the latter I had to install the OOo Google Docs extension. I think LibO is on the right course at the moment.
I hope ODF will eventually become international de facto standard for office document. But, the fact now, we cannot deny that MSO file formats have been used worldwide for several years. Thus, the development to accommodate these inevitable proprietary formats is a must to do. For the developer of LibreOffice (and former OpenOffice.org), thank you very much for the good efforts you’ve made. Greetings from Indonesia.
I don’t have any problem to save a doc file with LibreOffice for FreeBSD.
So sorry, I won’t be using Libre. I opened a Word 2003 doc, added some text, requested to save in .doc format, and the program locked up. Happened twice. I lost what I had added.
I believe MOX import and export filters should be actively developed and improved, just as the import filters for WordPerfect have been improved.
Broad interoperability is a key part of the ongoing success of LibreOffice, as poor interoperability has been growing problem for Microsoft. Continued effort in this area removes one of the biggest barriers to entry for many organisations, and also ensures that information won’t be lost through format deprecation in the decades and centuries to come.
I think that it is important to keep your eyes on the larger picture, and not get caught up in petty squabbles over which is the better document format: ODF or OOXML. The most important thing to remember is that both are used. The golden rule of software is that if the software does not serve the needs of the end user, then it is worthless.
The common user does not care or know about ODF or OOXML, and frankly – they don’t care. If they can’t open and save a document in LibreOffice using the format they need, then they will use something else. It’s that simple.
The fact I’m even on this website right now can be directly associated with this problem. My school tends to save things in .docx and I waste a lot of time making it more readable for myself. I don’t see the benefits of the new MS format at all, besides forcing everyone to buy MS Office, which I strongly reject. However, it is important to support this crap commercial format to make LibreOffice more widely used. Not supporting the formats properly will only push people towards Microsoft. So I’m all for the extra support. 🙂
While I’m at it, I should also admitt that LibreOffice could do with a fresh design. Make it look more appealing, more *intuïtive* and more interesting to potential new users. It’s really hard to make people enthusiastic about the current product as it looks… old. The Open Formats are cool but it won’t convince the teenage girls using MS Office daily for school. Just sayin’…
I think Kevin’s comment is important. If Libre Office is to go mainstream it needs to appear ‘fresh’ not ‘dusty’
I think it is important to be able to IMPORT the M$ files (DOCX, etc.) because so many Word users are clueless and can’t figure out that they need to do a SaveAs DOC to make their work more or less universally readable.
But I can’t see ANY REASON AT ALL to be able to export in this format, anyone who can read DOCX can also read DOC. As long as LibreOffice can save files as DOC, that should be enough. Why waste resources on being able to WRITE those OOXML files??? There are better things to spend time and money on.
i favor johns statement.
a)support to read/write ms formats is vital.
b) glad the project is back where it ame from -germany.
c) less features can mean a better, easier to understand software, or hide additional features under the hood where one an find them if needed.
d) thanks for all the work that has gone into this project over all the years.
a lot of people don’t even remeber where it came from (staroffice).
bring the software back up to the level where it belongs – a true open source star!
best whishes for all the ventures the team will take or has to take in the future lying ahead.
I guess there is only one really missing feature to export to doc or docx. It is conversion of charts, drawing and formulas to png or any other kind of pictures. Otherwise this save as .doc or .docx feature is useless in general.
If my organization were to adopt Libre Office, it would be incrementally. Problems with compatibility would lead to resistance and ultimately failure to adopt.
First, I would urge the Foundation to ignore all comments concerning the law, patent lawsuits, and the like. If those issues are of concern to the Foundation, then I’m sure the Foundation has the sense to get real legal advice.
Second, interoperability and collaboration are business requirements regardless of whether the technologies involved are open source or proprietary and regardless of who is the source of any proprietary software. If the goal of the Foundation is to expand use of LibreOffice, then LibreOffice must facilitate collaboration and support interoperability to the greatest extent possible. Supporting the import and export of documents compatible with MS Office is fundamental to interoperability and collaboration. No software is more prevalent for word processing and spreadsheet work than MS Office.
Thank you very much for the great work. Now we have LibreOffice in the FreeBSD port too :).
It works very good.
I think, OpenDocument v1.2+ as an open OASIS and ISO/IEC 26300 standard should be enough. Do not promote other standards with same functionality, as it weakens the native OpenDocument standard. Keep your precious development time on more important things!
I agree with those talking about compatability with other products. Let us not forget there are other apps out there (WordPerfect, ABI and all the rest) who should somehow be referred. I know WP is mentioned but there should be comments for other ones, too. I don’t know of any that don’t have compatible formats even if it’s just .rtf capabilities so all those apps are possible users of LO. Let’s mention them so they can become aware.
Go for it. Maximizing support for MS is the best way to insure the distribution
Frankly, I don’t give a damn about any proprietary or other corrupt format (I just need ODF, and optionally, PDF), but for their own peace of mind, TDF really ought to make 2 versions available:
1. a pristine LbO version untainted by any of that patent-encumbered hogwash
2. a litigation-bound piece of bloatware for all the interoperability must-haves
That way, when the evil ISVs come a-calling (they will), we’ll still have one package we can use. Oh, and thank you for your magnificent efforts.
interoperability with MS suite is essential for libreoffice in our 75 workstation office environment. As such, libroffice is found in 4 workstations and counting. Thanks to TDF for great work.
Thank you for LibreOffice but…
Yes, there are new features but the old one don’t work:
Impress is very buggy: open MS made files crashed it.
Math doesn’t works too: cannot resize, fonts are incorrect…
Word is for now O.K. but I didn’t tested so much…
I hope the new version or just patches will be out soon.
This issue will be difficult to resolve. Supporting MS file formats basically supports MS products. But not supporting them forces people to choose between Libre and MS. And with MS’s monopolistic hold on the desktop (at the moment), incompatibility would be a big barrier to getting Libre out there.
Unfortunately, freeing users from MS is going to be a long, arduous path. Until some future time when users – and, frankly, lazy software professional – wake up and understand the stakes, file compatibility should probably be a high priority. And it is with much mental anguish that I make this suggestion.
Perhaps one approach would be to make an ‘external’ converter app that would be run separately outside the main Office suite. It may be easier to maintain that code and/or get contributors to that code apart from trying to work inside the LibreOffice massive source library.
I use Word and Open-office all the time, especially for exporting files in PDF. I like many others am sick and tired of MS and wait anxiously for the day we have a open source operating system that will run windows applications without MS dependability.
ReactOS.
I use LibreOffice weekly for my presentations. I open alot of .ppt’s just fine. Working great haven’t seen any crashes. I also use Google documents. Ubuntu Linux, LibreOffice and Google docs = bliss.
I got to a point where the other presentation software I use won’t open pretty much anything I generated in LibreOffice Impress 3.3.2 RC2, so I downloaded OOo 3.3.0 and installed it in parallel, and it works 100%. I can open the files that Powerpoint viewer is rejecting, and then simply do a save as and save it again as a .ppt file, and PP viewer will accept it again.
Clearly there’s some enhancement in the LOo file format that is making Microsoft’s protection spit the dummy, but that enhancement isn’t there in OOo.
If I google “Office has detected a problem with this file. To help protect your computer this file cannot be opened.” there are heaps of articles about the new protection put out by MS, but somehow LOo files are getting flagged when OOo files aren’t.
Has anyone noticed that when saving in Microsoft’s binary formats there are now serious interoperability issues with MS products like powerpoint viewer?
“Office has detected a problem with this file. To protect your computer this file cannot be opened.”
See http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=36515 – although I don’t think that the problem really is to do with object grouping.
Basically Microsoft products are now rejecting files in binary format that aren’t close enough to what a genuine MS product would produce. I notice Powerpoint viewer will open both odp and pptx files from Libreoffice, but there are some minor issues with that too.
I came across this page out of frustration. I was collaborating on a project with some classmates who use MS Word. We saved a presentation as .pptx and I made some edits in Libreoffice Impress. Unfortunately, this corrupted the file and a substantial amount of content was lost. I had to roll back the changes in the Dropbox folder and add the missing content back in.
I suppose this was my fault for two reasons. One for saving it in .pptx instead of .ppt, and two for overwriting the previous version instead of saving it in a different file.
However, this problem would not have occurred if LO had better support for MS Office formats. I hate OOXML as much as the next guy (just look at the XML and what unreadable garbage it is), but in the interests of interoperability, it is necessary to support at least the basic functionality. I understand if OLE objects go missing when saving cross-format, but I do not expect text and images to disappear.
I am unsure whether Libreoffice/OpenOffice or Microsoft Office is to blame, but this problem is becoming very annoying. I use Linux on my desktop and my laptop, so I cannot use MS Word on my own computers. With the current state of MS Office format support in Libreoffice, the only way I can ensure that a homework assignment will display properly in MS Word is to go down to the computer lab and edit the document on the school’s Windows computers.
In an ideal world, everyone would be using ODT and we wouldn’t have to deal with all of this MS nonsense. But since MS has such a monopoly on the office productivity software market, we have to ensure that open-source alternatives are more compatible with the MS formats.
It is very frustrating to lose features of the document every time I try to export to MS formats. This means that interoperability promise from MS with OOXML, is not true. I personally I have many problems with the formats pptx, and docx. Also when I export from “Libre Office”, for example an ODT document to MS. doc, I have observed that the “old” versions of microsoft Office (XP or 2003), works better than the new versions of MS (2010), this gives evidence that MS is striving every day less compatible to their tools. All this “evidence” is good for something for ISO or anti-trust authority about this situation? Anyone in Europe could help? Anyway compatibility is a priority.